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	<title>Comments for The Third Space</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thethirdspace.net/?feed=comments-rss2" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thethirdspace.net</link>
	<description>Church might be more than you think...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 11:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>Comment on Christian Agnostics? by Rick Webster</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=939#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 04:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=939#comment-782</guid>
		<description>Hey Steve - I had to look it up when I first read the article. In addition to what you said Wikipedia adds, "Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief."

 I think Dr. Hayden is using 'agnostic' to refer to the process whereby he engages with God. Skeptical. Questioning. Not entirely convinced. But doggedly pursuing God just the same. What he said resonated deeply with me because of the number of times when I've desperately held on to God. Over the last decade I've seen so many core beliefs get stripped away. I've often found myself in a place where what I believed about God wasn't borne out by scripture or by my life experiences. But despite some knock-down blows, I just can't walk away. 

"Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Steve - I had to look it up when I first read the article. In addition to what you said Wikipedia adds, &#8220;Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the similarities or differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief.&#8221;</p>
<p> I think Dr. Hayden is using &#8216;agnostic&#8217; to refer to the process whereby he engages with God. Skeptical. Questioning. Not entirely convinced. But doggedly pursuing God just the same. What he said resonated deeply with me because of the number of times when I&#8217;ve desperately held on to God. Over the last decade I&#8217;ve seen so many core beliefs get stripped away. I&#8217;ve often found myself in a place where what I believed about God wasn&#8217;t borne out by scripture or by my life experiences. But despite some knock-down blows, I just can&#8217;t walk away. </p>
<p>&#8220;Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Christian Agnostics? by Steve Flower</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=939#comment-781</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Flower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 01:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=939#comment-781</guid>
		<description>I hate being a word-chopper, splicing and dicing words. But my understanding of &lt;i&gt;agnostic&lt;/i&gt; means one who doubts the &lt;i&gt;existence&lt;/i&gt; of God or an ultimate being - not someone who doesn't understand why that God is doing/not doing something to someone or something.

Bill Williams, the author of &lt;i&gt;Naked Before God&lt;/i&gt;, didn't doubt the existence of God. He doubted God's sanity, doubted at times that God was *good*, and definitely was sure that the pie-in-the-sky God that gets dispensed at most churches was a fabrication. But believing that there is a God, almost by definition, makes you non-agnostic. 

I'm with Bill, by the way. I think what gets dispensed as "God" by most churches in these darkened days is 
a) a Christianized version of Zeus, hurling thunderbolts, or any of the other Greco-Roman stable of gods, 
b) a politicized version of the Old Testament YHWH, also dispensing judgment and death and occasionally saving a few souls, or 
c) some new-age cross between Jesus and Ravi Shankar, but with much less good music.

I guess I'm a Christian, but also an achristendomic - I don't believe in Christendom as dispensed by Rome or Canterbury or any other so-called religious center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate being a word-chopper, splicing and dicing words. But my understanding of <i>agnostic</i> means one who doubts the <i>existence</i> of God or an ultimate being - not someone who doesn&#8217;t understand why that God is doing/not doing something to someone or something.</p>
<p>Bill Williams, the author of <i>Naked Before God</i>, didn&#8217;t doubt the existence of God. He doubted God&#8217;s sanity, doubted at times that God was *good*, and definitely was sure that the pie-in-the-sky God that gets dispensed at most churches was a fabrication. But believing that there is a God, almost by definition, makes you non-agnostic. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m with Bill, by the way. I think what gets dispensed as &#8220;God&#8221; by most churches in these darkened days is<br />
a) a Christianized version of Zeus, hurling thunderbolts, or any of the other Greco-Roman stable of gods,<br />
b) a politicized version of the Old Testament YHWH, also dispensing judgment and death and occasionally saving a few souls, or<br />
c) some new-age cross between Jesus and Ravi Shankar, but with much less good music.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m a Christian, but also an achristendomic - I don&#8217;t believe in Christendom as dispensed by Rome or Canterbury or any other so-called religious center.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Community by Rick</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=905#comment-779</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 06:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=905#comment-779</guid>
		<description>Thanks Mark!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mark!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Community by mark</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=905#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 03:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=905#comment-778</guid>
		<description>Hey 6 hours ago Joe and I were walking to the whistle stop on hunter st. and met up with Ted near the eco laundry room. Just now coming back in the opposite direction we say hello again to Ted on the same block, minus the toy cup and with an extra white long sleeve shirt. Thats all I gotta say and all I can say is I like Ted. Go Third Space and Community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey 6 hours ago Joe and I were walking to the whistle stop on hunter st. and met up with Ted near the eco laundry room. Just now coming back in the opposite direction we say hello again to Ted on the same block, minus the toy cup and with an extra white long sleeve shirt. Thats all I gotta say and all I can say is I like Ted. Go Third Space and Community.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Questioning Faith, Accepting Doubt by Rick</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=884#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 04:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=884#comment-776</guid>
		<description>Barb - True enough. Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barb - True enough. Well said.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Questioning Faith, Accepting Doubt by Barb</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=884#comment-775</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 18:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=884#comment-775</guid>
		<description>okay so I only waited one day.I think John wanted the attention to be on Jesus and people were focusing on John.So John was going to lay low to get people to pay attention to Jesus which reminds me to keep my eyes off the man and focus on the Lord .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>okay so I only waited one day.I think John wanted the attention to be on Jesus and people were focusing on John.So John was going to lay low to get people to pay attention to Jesus which reminds me to keep my eyes off the man and focus on the Lord .</p>
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		<title>Comment on Change vs. Transformation by Rick</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=865#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=865#comment-766</guid>
		<description>I'm glad too, John.

My experience? Trusting God - I mean really, really trusting him - doesn't happen without some kind of crisis. That looks different for everyone - some of the things I might brush off as being minor can be major life events to someone else.  

I have a atheist friend who says if we haven't come to our faith without some kind of struggle then what we have isn't really faith. Interesting, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad too, John.</p>
<p>My experience? Trusting God - I mean really, really trusting him - doesn&#8217;t happen without some kind of crisis. That looks different for everyone - some of the things I might brush off as being minor can be major life events to someone else.  </p>
<p>I have a atheist friend who says if we haven&#8217;t come to our faith without some kind of struggle then what we have isn&#8217;t really faith. Interesting, no?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Change vs. Transformation by John</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=865#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=865#comment-765</guid>
		<description>Lately I've started to reflect on the difference between having faith in my "faith" (including all the details, my specific beliefs, my chosen expression of Christianity, the intensity of my devotion, etc.) and having faith in God. I'm not even sure what this distinction is but I sense it's real and significant.  I hear Rick calling us beyond our comfort zones and the "idols" we've sincerely but mistakenly created that say "THIS is how God acts" or "THIS is who God is" and putting Spirit into nice neat boxes that leave us feeling in control.  But God is not a divine search engine in the sky, nor is he a spiritual GPS.  Sometimes (often?) he just doesn't answer our questions or tell us where we're going to end up.  And I'm trying to be ok with that.  And trust.  I'm just especially glad we're in this together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lately I&#8217;ve started to reflect on the difference between having faith in my &#8220;faith&#8221; (including all the details, my specific beliefs, my chosen expression of Christianity, the intensity of my devotion, etc.) and having faith in God. I&#8217;m not even sure what this distinction is but I sense it&#8217;s real and significant.  I hear Rick calling us beyond our comfort zones and the &#8220;idols&#8221; we&#8217;ve sincerely but mistakenly created that say &#8220;THIS is how God acts&#8221; or &#8220;THIS is who God is&#8221; and putting Spirit into nice neat boxes that leave us feeling in control.  But God is not a divine search engine in the sky, nor is he a spiritual GPS.  Sometimes (often?) he just doesn&#8217;t answer our questions or tell us where we&#8217;re going to end up.  And I&#8217;m trying to be ok with that.  And trust.  I&#8217;m just especially glad we&#8217;re in this together.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wild World by Ruth</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=834#comment-762</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 18:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=834#comment-762</guid>
		<description>Loved it.  Yeah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loved it.  Yeah.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 24 Things That Make Me Happy by te lil sis</title>
		<link>http://thethirdspace.net/?p=822#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>te lil sis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 May 2010 18:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdspace.net/?p=822#comment-761</guid>
		<description>you guys are tooooooo much!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you guys are tooooooo much!</p>
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